Are we Paynes?  There is DNA evidence that says we may not be.  Please look at the 37 Marker DNA for myself and the Edwards below.

Then read on and decide if you’re a member of my Payne family if you’re a Payne or an Edwards.  One of us is not who we claim to be.

 

Description: Description: Edwards[1]

 

Marilyn Wetherington <m_wetherington@yahoo.com> wrote:

My brother recently did the DNA test to see which Edwards we are related to, and we found that the closest match was Reuben Edwards, b. 1759 in NC. That match is 24 of 25 markers. I was hoping that we would match another Edwards, Thomas, Sr. who died 1751 in VA, but that match is not even close. The surprising thing is that my brother's DNA is a 25 of 25 match to the one with your name and e-mail address as a contact. (Now a 37 marker since this was in 2006 and no one else has matched exactly) . XXXX Edwards is the one that did the DNA test that is listed as Reuben Edwards, b. 1759 in NC and he apparently did not want his listed any place except the Edwards DNA site because his name did not come up as a match. He is an attorney, and he was concerned about others seeing his DNA for some reason.  I know this because I asked him to participate and paid for his DNA test. My ancestor and Reuben lived in the same area of GA for many years, and the DNA does match, but unless Reuben had a wife that died and he married again to Elizabeth Heard, my ancestor, James (born 1786 in GA) is not his son because Reuben married in 1792 or so to Elizabeth Heard according to his researchers, but they have no proof. They are just going by the birthdate of Reuben, Jr. who was born in 1796 in GA.
I just learned today how to search for others who match your DNA even though they do not have the same last name. I will attempt to tell you how so that you can also search there to see what you come up with.
I copied this from an e-mail from the person who told me how: You could also search the online databases that contain results for people who've tested at different labs than Family Tree DNA. One way to do this is to go to your personal pages at Family Tree DNA, click on the link labeled Y-DNA MATCHES, and then click on the link to upload your results to Ysearch, which is one such database. 
You can search by surname or by genetic matches. I found your name by searching genetic matches with at least 24 of 25 markers matching. Yours and a person from England matched my brother's perfectly.
The interesting thing is that perhaps your ancestors came from VA also, or were around some Edwards in TN (some went there very early, and were descendants of Thomas Edwards, Sr. from VA). I did a google search with your name in quotation marks + Tennessee and came up with a website listing Greenwood & Sarah Payne, Contributed by Jerald Wilson © 2005
I copied it and will print it and take it home and read it tonight. Are you related to these people. Some of the people listed at this site were from the very same area of VA that Thomas Edwards, Sr. was from, and I had believed that Reuben Edwards was a cousin to the John Edwards that I have been attempting to prove as the father of James. John Edwards was the grandson of Thomas Edwards, Sr.

I hope that you are not totally confused by this e-mail. I found your name as a perfect match to my brother's DNA and then found that some Paynes were from the very same area of VA as John Edwards, potential father of my ancestor, James Edwards.
Marilyn Edwards Wetherington

 

REVOLUTIONARY WAR SOLDIER. CAPT.WILLIAM HILLS COMPANY

<==========>
U.S., Sons of the American Revolution Membership Applications for
Frank Donald Crowell on June 16, 1955

EDWARDS, John.

Born August 12, 1752, in Culpeper County, Virginia. Parents not given. According to his statement when he applied for pension in Oct. 1832, he rendered the following Service from the fall of 1777 or 1778 in Capt. Wm. Hill's Company of Light Horse, a prt of the time under Colonel Sevier of N. C.; he marched from N. C. to S. C. and Georgia; was in the engagement with the Tories of "Bullsborough"; was stationed later at Augusta and was discharged there, having served 18 months. Pension certificate No. 19934 was issued September 26, 1833 to John Edwards, rate $75.00 per annum, act of June 7, 1832, Alabama Agency. No reference was made to wife or children. He was in Franklin County, N. C. when he enlisted. Afterward he resided in Culpeper County, Va. a few years, moved to Wilks County, Georgia, thense in 1821 to Perry County, Ala. where he resided when he received his persion. The last payment of Pension covering the period from March 4, 1831 to March 4, 1834, to Wm. Jones, Jr. as attorney for the pensioner. On May 20, 1834 John Edwards attested that he had been living in Perry County, Ala. and had previsously lived in Georgia
Jones and Gandrud, Perry Cpunty, Alabama Records. Vol. 73.

 

--- Joe Payne <joe@joepayne.org> wrote:

Marilyn,
This is very interesting and quite shocking.  I had been coordinating the Payne family DNA Chart until a few months ago and quit because my "brick wall", so to speak was getting nowhere.  When something like this comes up you can't help but wonder if there hadn't been a name change somewhere along the way.

I have lots of family tradition that says that Reuben Payne along with a brother and Reuben's three sons came from England somewhere about 1780 but no proof of that one way or the other.  I only put that he was born in VA because of a hope to connect to another Virginia Payne. His wife was a Sweatman which is a Northern Virginia, Southern Maryland name.  I have uploaded my DNA to the Y-Search but have not compared it to anyone else in a long time. These matches are very interesting and with the name Reuben as an ancestor does make one think.
I plan on getting back into the DNA project later this fall or winter.  Please keep me posted on what you might find because if something does turn up then my family would sure want to know.
I found a good site to explain the reason that same surnames might have exact DNA matches   DNA – A Tool for Genealogy  If one of my family would like to do an upgrade to a 67 marker test it would give us a clearer picture of surname matches.
Thanks,
Joe Payne
Tennessee

 

I am attaching a chart with the 37 markers and you are a perfect match with my brother. Reuben matches 36 of 37, and I am sure hanging on to Reuben because he is the only Edwards that we do match closely. There is a 99% probability that my ancestor and Reuben had a common ancestor within 10-16 generations, and the chances are a little better for you and my brother. It could have happened as early as the early 1700s because I have found Edwards, May, and Payne together in VA then and also in GA in the late 1700s and early 1800s (a Mark May also matches my brother). Tell me the name of your last proven ancestor and where he was located and I will search to see where the link happened. This does not make you any less of a Payne, but you are not going to match their DNA because of some ancestor long ago was either adopted or an Edwards was spreading seeds on another man's property.

That apparently happened a lot; they were not as straight-laced as I had assumed back in the 1700 and 1800s. Case in point, the Bastardly Bonds of the 1800s.
Marilyn

 

 

 

 

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Reuben and James match 36 out of 37; Reuben (Chris Edwards’ DNA) is 90280 and James (my brother’s DNA is 90213. You are a perfect 37 of 37 match with my brother.


I still have not proven that James Edwards was the son of Reuben Edwards except the DNA matches. Also, I cannot determine who Reuben's father was, so I am very frustrated at this point. Using the names that Reuben mentioned in his Rev. War pension application, I have been researching each of the names and they all go back to NC, and two were said by Reuben to still be in Franklin NC in 1832 when he gave the information. Those two were Peter Goodwin and Henry Greene. Most of the names he mentioned can be found in the Franklin Co., NC area, where Reuben said that he was discharged from the Rev. War. A William Edwards is listed as one of the first settlers of the area, along with a James Paine. James Paine is a neighbor of an Edwards, but I cannot prove that it was William Edwards because it just says Edwards. At any rate, I believe that this is the area Reuben is from, so one of the early Edwards there has to be his father. Perhaps one day I can get to NC and search. I have searched everything I can find in GA and am still at a dead end. I am sending portions of four documents that I copied. James Paine is mentioned in both of them and appears to be the first Paine in the area, but a John Paine and a Robert Paine are also mentioned. If I remember correctly, one of your ancestors was a John Paine.
Marilyn Edwards Wetherington

 

doc1.doc                     doc2.doc                      doc3.doc                   doc4.doc 

 

 

After reading your e-mail again, I remembered that there is also an old family tale about Reuben Edwards, but I don't believe that it is true. His Rev. War records indicate that he was born in NC and came to GA after the war. I am sending as an attachment the "tale" and the website that I first came upon that information. I have corresponded with this Gayle Degraffenried and she admits that she does not know if it is true or not. I know for sure that the Reuben who was born in 1796 married Catherine Dingler, and they have her name as beginning with a K so I certainly don't trust their information, and I have never been able to find anything on this Katheline Cowan. I just thought that you might be interested because the "tale" is so similar to your family tale.
Marilyn

 

http://www.familyorigins.com/users/d/e/g/Gayle--Degraffenried/FAMO1-0001/d59.htm#P185

SIXTH GENERATION

60. REUBEN EDWARDS (1)(25) was born about 1796 in GA (See note).(46) Kathlene Cowan notes: Between 1735 and 1740, Three Edwards brothers came to the United States from London England on the ship "Mayflower". They were, Ruben, Archer, and Lamar Edwards. Archer Edwards was never married. he settled in New York, and one or the old parks was named for him.. One of the others of the three boys settled out west. The other one settled in Savannah , Georgia. Ruben Edwards had a son named Ruben Edwards. If he had any other children , we do not know. Ruben Edwards had five boys, Robert, Richard, Dick, Jim, and John. After the War Between the States, Ruben Edwards found himself in Savannah, Georgia. His wife was brought to him from England. He paid her transportation with two hogs of Tobacco. Ruben Edwards, Jr. was born in 1796, married Cathrine K. and died in 1864. Their children were: Henry H., Nancy L., Elizabeth, Robert S., Ruben R. Sara, Mary, Richard M. Jim, and John. Nancy married a Leverette. Elizabeth married Elijah Cornwell. Robert S. married Mary Hardy and Martha C. Sara married Norris. Mary married Billy Satterwhite. Richard married Martha Hardy.

61. Catherine K. (2). Children were:
Description: Description: childi. Henry H. EDWARDS.
Description: Description: childii. Nancy L. EDWARDS.
Description: Description: childiii. Elizabeth EDWARDS.
Description: Description: child30 iv. ROBERT SIMEON EDWARDS.
Description: Description: childv. Reuben R. EDWARDS.
Description: Description: childvi. Sarah A. EDWARDS(47).
Description: Description: childvii. Mary C. EDWARDS(47).
Description: Description: childviii. Richard Monroe EDWARDS. grandfather of Katheline Cowan
Description: Description: childix. John T.(or L.) EDWARDS.